Booting from USB drive

[shalmak]

Hi folks,
I am trying to figure out the basics of using Knoppix with persistent disk image. As many others, I'm just trying to get Knoppix to run on my system with the ability to save my settings and stuff.
I downloaded and burned Knoppix 6.2.1 on CD and it works fine from there.
Then I did a flash-install onto my external USB HDD (all the forums and FAQs talk about flash drives, I'm not sure if there is any significant difference between that and an external HDD).
Then I fiddled with the BIOS settings a bit so that the USB HDD would come before the internal HDD which has Vista installed. I think I did that correctly but can't say for sure - see problem below.

Now when the system boots from the USB HDD everything works fine, I was initially prompted for the storage size, and stuff is automatically saved to the disk - Yay...

After playing around a bit more I noticed that whenever I do a shutdown the system will boot Vista from the internal HDD, or Knoppix from the CD if its in the drive, but not from the USB HDD. Further experiments showed that the only situation in which the system booted from the USB HDD is if I first boot from the Knoppix CD then do a reboot (but not a shutdown). After that I can do further reboots and it will continue booting from the USB HDD but as soon as I shut down (or if I intentionally go back to Vista by disconnecting the USB HDD), the only way to go back to booting from the USB HDD is via the CD as described above.

Does this make sense at all? I'm not too familiar with how boot sequences work so I can only guess that when I do a reboot from Knoppix (either USB or CD) it tells the BIOS something that makes it boot correctly the next time, but that "something" isn't there after shutting down or after launching Vista.

From other posts I see that I could probably use the CD with a cheatcode to launch from the USB but I don't want to do that for 2 reasons -
1 - I want to get rid of the CD dependency if possible
2 - I want to be able to boot without cheat codes for a friendlier user experience

Any help would be appreciated.
BTW it would be great if someone knowledgeable would update the "Live CD tips" FAQ page. It is clearly outdated and this is basic information that most newcomers (like myself) need to get started.

[utu]

@shalmak

I would expect that a Vista machine should boot from a USB device.
You need to describe in more detail what your bios options are for
your boot sequence choices.

For example, I have a Win7 laptop with an hdd, several USB ports,
an SD Card slot and DVD/Recorder. My boot choices are HDD, DVD and
USB. The SD Card is only seen if one particular USB port is unused.

I have used Knoppix 6.2.1 on a 2G SD Card for about six months now,
and am really pleased with this setup.

[shalmak]

Thanks utu, I believe I figured it out.
After some more experimenting, I found out that if the external HDD is powering up at the same time that the BIOS is starting up (like after a complete shutdown), the BIOS will usually fail to detect the bootable USB drive simply because it is still powering up. Oddly, the Vista "reboot" process shuts down the USB drive power at some point while taking the system down, while the Knoppix "reboot" process does not. I could confirm this by simply looking at the drive's power indicator and listening to the noises it makes as it starts up.
So my solution is basically if I want to launch Knoppix when the system is completely down or currently on Vista, I need to delay the BIOS start up process by a few seconds (like by going into the BIOS setup then exiting it) and then the USB drive would be detected and everything works fine.
Pretty neat, I think

[utu]

There may be a Knoppix cheatcode called waitusb that will do what you want.
This used to solve a similar problem using DSL, which was based on Knoppix.
Cheers.

[shalmak]

I don't think it would help in my case because the system wouldn't even bring up the first Knoppix page where you would enter a cheatcode if it didn't detect the USB drive. I imagine that the cheatcode you mentioned could be useful if you have say knoppix on a CD and just your persistent image on a USB.

[utu]

@shalmak

I also have a USB HDD, about 350GB, which I use for image backups of
my Win7 system on a Dell Inspiron laptop. This HDD Cost about $100.
I could, in principle, add a third or fourth partition on this HDD
and attempt to emulate your situation.

If I did that, and duplicated your result, I would have to conclude
that my Dell's bios setup, either firmware or software (a binary file
I don't have the source for) needs a tweak to provide the equivalent
of a 'wait usb' correction for the USB HDD's slow start-up.

If I could replace the firmware or reprogram the binary file, I
might then find that adding a partition to my USB HDD causes
my Win7 backup software not to work.

This seems like just asking for trouble. I am a pragmatist; I'd look
for an easier way to get on the Knoppix bandwagon.

The current cost of a USB thumb drive or an SD Card with 2GB or more
is somewhere between ten and twenty dollars. I think it very unlikely,
assuming your computer's vintage handles MS Vista, that
you would have the USB problem you describe using one of these devices.

My advice is for you to invest in one of these little gems.

I use Knoppix 6.2.1 on a 2GB SD Card by choice, since my needs
are modest and since I also have Win7, Ubuntu 10, Mepis and XP around
here somewhere. If you need everything on the Knoppix DVD you'll need
more than 2GB, of course.